Did James make the right Final Jeopardy bet?

Pre-post note to people wondering where the fuck I am: 

Hi! I miss you. I’ve been working on a massive post so massive it’s hard to even call it a post. I really am nearing the end of the process, but as people who follow Wait But Why closely are aware, I’m incredibly awful at giving time predictions, so I’m going to just leave it at that.

I can’t wait to share what I’ve spent most of the last couple of years thinking about. Especially because a blogger flow is usually like this:


But the last couple years, aside from a few breaks to post something, has been more like this:

It’s been unpleasant. And I miss you. And I’ll see you back here soon.

For now, I had to briefly emerge from my hole so we can discuss Jeopardy. 

___________

Like many of you I presume, I recently became obsessed with James Holzhauer’s run on Jeopardy. James is odd. He makes a lot of faces like this:


And this:But he’s weirdly likable, ridiculously impressive, and the more time that went on, the more I found myself rooting for him like a sports team. When he’d be down in Double Jeopardy, I’d be on the edge of my seat saying, “come on James!” When he’d hit a Daily Double, I’d breathe a sigh of relief. And whenever he got to Final Jeopardy needing to get the answer right to keep the streak going, I’d pump my fist like a psycho when his answer came up correct.

Then, on Monday, he dashed my dreams and broke my heart—one win shy of breaking the all-time money record. Excruciating.

James was really, really good at Jeopardy. Before James went on, the show’s single-game money record was $77,000.That was the human record, at least—IBM’s Watson slightly topped that with $77,147. That was the best anyone had ever done in 55 years of the show. James not only won 32 straight games (the second most after Ken Jennings’s absurd 74-game run), his average winning total during the run was higher than the previous $77,000 record. He now holds each of the 16 top spots on the “highest single-day Jeopardy scores ever” list.

It’s just fun watching someone be so much better than everyone else at something. It’s the same reason I like watching professional sports. Watching James on Jeopardy was like watching Steph Curry shooting threes—except in this case, the deal was that the first time Curry had one bad game, he’d be banned from the game forever and you’d never get to watch him play again. 

In the aftermath of James’s one bad game, there’s been a lot of discussion about his Final Jeopardy bet, and this is the exact kind of thing I need to discuss with you, so here are my thoughts:

(For the unacquainted: Final Jeopardy is the last round of the game, and it’s only one question. After being told only the general topic category, players can wager any amount of their accumulated totals on the question. The player with the most money after Final Jeopardy is the winner, keeps their winnings, and moves on to the next day. The other two win a token $2,000 (second place) and $1,000 (third place) and that’s that for them.)

If you’re a contestant, the simplest Final Jeopardy situation is when the first-place contestant goes into the round with more than double the total that second place has. Let’s call it Scenario A.

If you’re in first place in Scenario A, all you do is calculate double what second place has and that becomes your “do not cross under any circumstances” line.

Assuming you give yourself a higher than 50% chance of getting the question right, you want to do the highest bet possible without crossing that line (so that if you get it right, you end up with the most money). So in the situation above, you’d bet $1,999. Worst-case scenario (you get it wrong, second place gets it right), you win by $1.

If you’re in second place in Scenario A, you’re out of the running for first, so no one cares what you do. Have a nice time.

James is so good that he was almost always in Scenario A situations when Final Jeopardy started, in first place, with more than (usually well more than) double the next highest total. On those episodes, Final Jeopardy was a chill situation with no stakes, other than seeing how big James’s total would be for that day.

Then there’s Scenario B. Here, second place has more than half—but less than two-thirds—of what first place has. Like this:

If you’re in first place in Scenario B, you want to make sure that if you get the Final Jeopardy question correct, you guarantee yourself the victory. So you’d assume the worst-case scenario: second place gets it right and wagers everything. That total becomes your “must cross if I get it right” line. In the above situation, that line is at $12,000. So you’d bet no less than $2,001.You’d also want to make sure you win in the case that you and second place both get it wrong. The worst-case scenario here is that second place gets it wrong but, for some odd reason, bets nothing. That makes their pre-round total ($6,000 in our example) your “do not cross under any circumstances” line. So your maximum bet would be $3,999.

Assuming you don’t hate the question category, the presumption that you have a better-than-50% chance of getting the question right holds, and the rational bet would be the maximum of this range: $3,999.

Assuming first place plays optimally and stays within this range, second place in Scenario B has an easy calculation too. If first place gets it right, it’s over. If you get it wrong, it’s over. Your only chance is if you get it right and first place doesn’t. Since the only scenario in which your bet even matters is when you get it right, and you want to end up with the highest possible total in that situation, you bet everything you’ve got.It probably makes the most sense to bet just a few dollars less than everything, so that if third place goes all-in and you both get it wrong, you stay in second.

So far, this has been non-controversial. It’s in our final scenario—Scenario C—that things get complicated. 

In Scenario C, second place has more than two-thirds of what first place has:

The traditional thinking is that first place wants to guarantee themselves victory in the case that they get Final Jeopardy correct, so they’d have a similar calculus to Scenario B. Here, their “must cross” line would be at $16,000, so they’d bet at least $6,001.

Second place, knowing that, looks at the four possibilities:

Assuming that first place will bid at least $6,001, you know in the cases where they get it right, you have no shot at winning. And in the case where they get it wrong and you get it right, they’ll have gone beneath your pre-round total trying to cover the case where you double, so you’ll win no matter what you bet.

But how about the case where you’re both wrong? 

In Scenario B, first place can have their cake and eat it too, guaranteeingwhat a weird-looking word victory if they get it right (green and yellow quadrants), but also guaranteeing victory if both players get it wrong (blue quadrant). But in Scenario C, they lose their cake-eating luxury—because in order to bid enough to top second place doubling up when they both get it right, they also have bid enough that if they get it wrong, they end up below second place’s pre-round score. 

This leaves the second place player with an extra little opportunity in Scenario C—knowing that first place will bid at least $6,001, they can win in the case that both players get the answer wrong by bidding little enough to stay above $3,999. That would be a $4,000 maximum bet.

In the situation above, second place would also want to protect against third place doubling up to $6,000, so they’d bid $1,999. This would mean victory if first place got it wrong, regardless of how second or third place does on the question. A little cleverness has stolen you the blue quadrant:

On Monday, James, normally beginning Final Jeopardy in first place in the automatic Scenario A or only-need-to-get-it-right Scenario B situations, found himself in a Scenario C situation—in second place—behind an extremely strong player named Emma Boettcher. This was the score:

So James did what I described above. He figured Emma would bet at least enough ($20,201) to top twice his total ($46,800) in the case that they both got the answer right. 

Following that logic, he figured that if Emma got it wrong, she’d end up losing at least $20,201, bringing her down to $6,399 at most. His only shot of winning would be if Emma got it wrong, so $6,399 became his “do not cross” floor. His maximum bet would then be $17,000, which would guarantee that he beat Emma if she got it wrong, regardless of whether he got it right or not. 

But like in our case above, the third-place player, Jay Sexton, was in the picture too, with $11,000. Twice Jay’s total ($22,000) became a second and higher “do not cross” line for James—so James made the perfect bet: $1,399. 

With that bet, he’d win if Emma got it wrong, and Jay would have no chance of beating him—in both cases, regardless of whether he got the answer right or wrong. Being in second place isn’t a great situation to be in, but James gave himself the best shot he could.

Or did he?

See, this is where it gets interesting. James explained his reasoning in a post-show interview:

This falls in line with the traditional reasoning I laid out above. The “straight bet vs. parlay” thing is this Scenario-C–specific second place strategy I explained, where you can steal the [wrong-wrong] scenario from first place.

This is indeed how things played out. Emma bet $20,201 to cover James’s all-in bet, James correctly predicted that and bet $1,399, and both of them got it right—making Emma the winner.

But how about this part of the quote? 

there was no way she wouldn’t bet to cover my all-in bet

Let’s think about this for a second. If you’re Emma, you know James is an amazing strategist who has likely analyzed every possible Final Jeopardy scenario through and through. So you can guess that he will go through the above reasoning and will therefore make a bet small enough to win in the case that you both get the answer wrong. And if he does what you expect him to, given what he assumes you’re going to do, you now have an opportunity to steal both the blue [wrong-wrong] and the orange [I’m wrong – he’s right] quadrants back from him by betting less than the traditional reasoning would tell you to.

In other words, just like James assumed “there was no way she wouldn’t bet to cover my all-in bet,” Emma could have further assumed, “there was no way James won’t assume I wouldn’t bet to cover his all-in bet.” That assumption would lead her to the conclusion that James will bet $1,399 (which he did)—which would make his maximum winnings $24,799. That’s less than her pre-round total of $26,600. So she could have guaranteed herself victory by betting nothing!

Let’s call this the Emma Mindfuck Strategy.

 

If you’re Emma, knowing who James is, and knowing who he thinks you are—a super smart person but still unlikely to think through this many iterations of mindfuck strategy—I believe betting nothing would have been a clever move. It’s risky, because if James doesn’t do what you think he will, you’re likely to lose. But the traditional strategy is risky for a different reason: you have to get the answer right to win. I’m not sure what the bigger risk is, but I think there’s at least a strong case for the Emma Mindfuck Strategy.

Which brings me back to James’s decision. He’s amazing at Jeopardy, and Emma clearly is too. So let’s assume that they both had a 90% chance of getting Final Jeopardy right. 

That puts our four cases at these probabilities:If these probabilities are reasonably accurate, the traditional strategy James went with gave him a 10% chance of winning:

Since that’s so low, it seems reasonable to consider what I’ll call the James Double Mindfuck Strategy (JDMS). 

The JDMS thinks about the logic I laid out above that suggests there’s a strong argument for Emma to go with the Emma Mindfuck Strategy. And if Emma does go for the mindfuck, then James can hugely up his chances of winning by making a big bet instead of a small bet: 

 

Here’s the breakdown of the four possibilities: 

All James is sacrificing by opting for the JDMS instead of traditional strategy is the ability to win in the case that both he and Emma get it wrong—which is a tiny 1% sacrifice. But he gains a ton. By going with a big JDMS bet, he gives himself a 90% chance of winning if Emma goes with the mindfuck strategy herself. Sure, Emma is more likely to go with the traditional strategy—but how much more likely? Remember, on top of the general merits of the Emma Mindfuck strategy, she may also hate the clue category, which could further sway her in that direction. 

For James’s traditional strategy to be the best tactic, the chances of Emma going mindfuck would have to be utterly minuscule. (It’s worth noting as well that Jay is completely irrelevant here. The only way Jay comes into the picture is if James and Emma both get it wrong and Jay gets it right—a possibility already nested within the tiny blue quadrant.)

So all things considered, I think James made the wrong decision. 

Of course, if Emma has really thought things through, she’d have come upon the potential JDMS pitfall herself, which may have swayed her towards the Emma Triple Mindfuck Strategy, where she thwarts the JDMS by betting big. The fact that she did end up betting big means either that she was doing a non-mindfuck or a triple-mindfuck—whatever her reasoning was, James correctly predicted her bet and made the best bet for that prediction. But that doesn’t mean it was the right bet.

___________

Three other surprisingly short Wait But Why posts:

Why I’m Always Late

The Tail End

What Could You Buy With $241 Trillion? 

___________

Add yourself to our email list and I’ll let you know when the big fat huge post is up.

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180 comments

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  1. Yeet Avatar
    Yeet
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    who else saw poor James’s comments and felt bad for him

    1. Yeet Avatar
      Yeet
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      oops, meant jay

  2. Noslaxia Avatar
    Noslaxia
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    Interesting… And I’m not going to do Jeopardy…

  3. Alex Trust Avatar
    Alex Trust
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    I’m rooting for you in your quest to finish this upcomming immense post-project! I’m cheering for you at the finish line, in your final dash for completion! 🙂

  4. Joe Avatar
    Joe
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    If both of them only care about winning the final, then this is a 2-player zero sum game. And there will be an optimal mixed strategy for each of them, which is likely in the form of (bet X amount of money Y percent of the time). If either of them deviates from that strategy, they lose out and hurt their chances. (This is considering triple mindfuck, quadruple mindfuck, etc.)

    But, if they also care about the actual payout, then it becomes a non-zero sum game and I don’t think there will be an equilibrium any more.

  5. JFSII Avatar
    JFSII
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    Don’t forget that bets get placed before the final question, and Emma would (quite rightfully) want to maximize her winnings AND ensure her ability to win. She would never bet nothing.

  6. hostitulator Avatar
    hostitulator
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    But James should have bet everything in order to double his money, $20,000 is still a lot of money for some of us

  7. nilla Avatar
    nilla
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    The only thing I even sort of have to add to this is that there is a good chance Emma didn’t know James was such a betting beast. I’m sure she knew he was great at the game due to being introduced as a (30+?) day champion, but had his episodes begun to air by the time she came for her taping?

    1. hotpotamus Avatar
      hotpotamus
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      He wasn’t really even a 30 day champion from the production perspective. They tape a bunch back to back and she didn’t really know much about him when she went on.

  8. Marc Brodeur Avatar

    You’re also assuming in the probabilities that their correct-response-rates are independent.

    I think that James also thought that their correct responses were highly correlated, so that they would be much more likely to both be right, or both wrong, but much less likely to only have one correct answer between the two of them.

    If you want to see a classic of a statistician losing his mind over other’s misunderstanding of correlation, enjoy: https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/794994991730933766

    1. David B Avatar
      David B
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      This is what I was thinking – the both-wrong probability is understated. If they’ve both scored so well on Jeopardy-type questions, their information bases must overlap considerably.

  9. Erik Lönnroth Avatar
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    This is called a Bayesian Nash equilibrium

  10. Oscar Avatar
    Oscar
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    But it’s so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you. Are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet, or his enemy’s? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I’m not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool; you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
    Not remotely. Because iocane comes from Australia, as everyone knows. And Australia is entirely peopled with criminals. And criminals are used to having people not trust them, as you are not trusted by me. So I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. Yes — Australia, and you must have suspected I would have known the powder’s origin, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
    You’ve beaten my giant, which means you’re exceptionally strong. So, you could have put the poison in your own goblet, trusting on your strength to save you. So I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But, you’ve also bested my Spaniard which means you must have studied. And in studying, you must have learned that man is mortal so you would have put the poison as far from yourself as possible, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.

  11. Zee Avatar
    Zee
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    I think that you think that I think that you think…It’s a deep rabbit hole.
    Can’t wait for your next Big Thing. Keep up the excellent work!

  12. ivan vazquez Avatar
    ivan vazquez
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    I hope your huge post will be regarding embracing the current world we live in, and how things will end up if we don’t take in consideration all the important things that are happening and will happen in a few years, like:
    Increase in global temperatures, fauna extinction, bee population reduction, water shortage, artificial intelligence improvements, autonomous driving, inflation, gold and cryptocoins value manipulation, attention economy, space race, free internet, suscription oriented economy and a big etcetera… That could probably be the most important and biggest post I can imagine in your channel, the fact that the world works with all these things happening at the same time, and we need to be really aware of that.

  13. Finn Avatar
    Finn
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    Is your mega post essentially “what the flying fuck is consciousness then”. It is isn’t it.

  14. Clark Barrett Avatar
    Clark Barrett
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    I’m sorry but the author’s original premise is wrong for two reasons. 1) Author watched James do wonderful things night after night. Emma only met him and learned of his prowess the day of the taping. James was introduced to her as a guy who had won a gazillion dollars and a lot of games. From: https://www.vulture.com/2019/06/jeopardy-emma-boettcher-james-holzhauer-defeat-interview.html
    When you flew out for the taping, how familiar with James were you when you were informed he’d be your competitor?
    I was informed a little later on in the morning. When I got to the studio, I personally hadn’t heard of James before. The show keeps things under wraps pretty tightly, even for future contestants. We were sitting around a table filling out paperwork and doing things like that, and somewhere in the course of the morning a contestant coordinator pointed out James and said, “Here’s our returning champion, he’s won 29 games, and he’s won $2 million, but anyway, here’s more paperwork for you.” There’s a lot of information coming at you quickly, and that was one data point I had to deal with.

    What was your initial reaction? Was there any Oh, shit moment?
    My first reaction was that I honestly didn’t think it was a real number. I thought they were playing a joke on us — like, giving us a really big number at first and then giving us a lower number afterwards to make us feel relieved. Obviously that wasn’t true….
    So she only has that data point and she barely believes it. She sees him perform well in their game, though not as well as usual. [His grand – unavoidable – failure was picking the first Daily Double in his very first ‘answer.’ He had not built his usual cache and bet big, he could only bet $1000]. So she is going to make a standard bet in Final Jeopardy. She doesn’t have any reason not to.
    2) James stated in post interviews the obvious. There is no way she is going to get Final Jeopardy incorrect. He knows she’s a university librarian who did her Master’s thesis on Jeopardy (it’s revealed during the introduction and Alex’s early game banter). He knows the clue is Shakespeare Characters. He even knows she kicked butt on an earlier set of clues of a similar nature (I can’t remember what they were). No way she misses Final Jeopardy but he had to play as if she might. So he covered the 3rd place bet and crossed his fingers.
    No luck for James but absolutely the correct bet.

  15. Chandler Klang Smith Avatar
    Chandler Klang Smith
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    I’m sure you won’t even see this comment, and I can’t imagine you’ll take it seriously, because as a writer I know that criticism from random internet strangers is the last thing I consider — if I consider it at all — when I’m thinking about how to tackle my work. However: I think the approach you’ve taken to blogging is profoundly at odds with the medium you’ve chosen, and it bums me out, because imo blogging as a medium still has a lot of unrealized potential (even though it’s going the way of the dinosaurs) and you at least used to be uniquely positioned to realize that (both in terms of your audience/your audience’s expectations, and your particular talents as a creative person).

    When you drew the illustration up there, about the person with the inflating head, did you think about why most bloggers work the way they do, and why the approach you’ve chosen is usually favored by the authors of traditionally published books? My theory, at least, is that blogs exist in a continuum with other kinds of online communication. A blog post is not a tweet or clickbait listicle where instant engagement is the primary goal. But the reason it’s a blog post, as opposed to an ebook, *is* because it’s supposed to invite conversation and create community, and because that conversation and community is supposed to influence where the blog goes next. That was something you had here, and it makes sense to me that you miss it, because it wasn’t just a pleasant side effect; it was essential, a core part of your product’s value. It was what made this a *blog*.

    When you publish a book-length “blog post” containing material that you have entirely exhausted through months or years of thought and research, and it’s clear that your next “blog post” will arrive months or years later after a similar process, you are not inviting your audience in to jump in and ponder and go on the journey with you. Instead, you’re asking them to listen and absorb as you recount your lengthy solo voyage, and you’re putting an enormous time delay on the visible effect of any feedback you receive. Basically, you’re giving them a different product entirely: one where you write and they read. And that’s fine, if you want to write books! But part of what made WBW such an appealing place to learn about things like technology and personal growth was because the medium fit that message: it was nimble and energetic and responsive while still offering substance. That’s in short supply online these days, and it makes me sad.

    1. Hen3ry Avatar
      Hen3ry
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      I think that Tim made it clear that he wants to return to a more normal schedule after the monster post. Still doesn’t mean much until that post becomes a thing.

    2. Zee Avatar
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      Ooph!

  16. Raimonda Avatar
    Raimonda
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    You have to try this board game – OM NOM NOM, it basically plays out the exact same situation you described – double, triple, quadruple mindfucks against other players. I have a feeling you will enjoy it 😀

  17. Ievgenii  Polishchuk Avatar
    Ievgenii Polishchuk
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    The final table definitely needs some Nash equilibrium. And that is [EMS – 1/91, JDMS – 10/91]

    You are welcome!

    1. City Boy Avatar
      City Boy
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      Yes, Nash is the one and only way to solve this. The initial analysis is fine, but once you have all the options a randomised strategy is the only way to extract maximum value (and immunise against the opponent’s optimal strategy). I’m surprised that the blog author didn’t bring this up as it is a fatal flaw in his end reasoning.

  18. Steve Avatar
    Steve
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    Iocane powder? Anyone? It all I could think of while reading this.

    1. devon Avatar
      devon
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      So clearly I cannot drink the glass in front of you!

      Absolutely!

  19. Jose P Avatar
    Jose P
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    Hi Tim, great post. I really like the analysis you made. But I disagree a little whit the conclusion: I assumed that the traditional bet for James was goin on with his best chance ($1.399), but the real traditional bet, I think it would be betting all-in. Considering that scenario, the final chart change a bit and it fact, the result is exactly the one on the double mind-fuck. So whit that point of view, Emma do the right thing, because betting all-in, make her a winner in 2 of 3 scenarios. Also James was right, there is no chance that Emma do not bet to cover the James all-in bet. Even if she knew that James will bet only $1.399, the best choice to her is going all-in (because of the money).

  20. Karl Russell Avatar
    Karl Russell
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    I am English, living in England and have never watched a single episode of Jeopardy but I still read this much longer than average (but less than his normal posts) post. That’s testament to the respect I have for Tim, the post starvation he has enforced upon us recently and his incredible writing style. He really could write about anything and I would be interested. How does he do it!?

  21. Joshua King Avatar
    Joshua King
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    I feel like Vizzini just explained this to me. You have a truly dizzying intellect.

  22. Mark Shifrin Avatar
    Mark Shifrin
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    Your Massive post is How Tesla will change the World.

  23. Rogueninja Avatar
    Rogueninja
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    It seems to me that for Emma, the traditional strategy is clearly the optimal choice. Regardless of the strategies outlined for James, the difference in Emma’s chance for victory changes by at most 1% whereas if she chooses the Mindfuck strategy it varies from 100 to 10%. Given that the Mindfuck strategy relies on strictly more propositions than the traditional assessment, it also is less likely to occur, making the square with only 10% chance of victory more likely than the certain win.

    This means for James, he is still more likely to win by playing traditionally, as the double Mindfuck strategy relies on strictly more propositions than the Mindfuck one, further decreasing the ultimate probability of the 10% chance scenario vs the 9% chance scenario (which is strictly more likely anyway). Overall, deviation from the traditional strategy by either party decreases their respective chances to win.

    1. NielsR Avatar
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      I like that thinking, and would like to add to it: Ur-Mindfuck.

      James can affect the outcomes if he can break Emma’s concentration, drop her chances to answer correctly. Super-confidently staking an amount without a clear rationale might (might!) do that.

      This bolsters your point that Emma’s strongest strategy is brute-force Traditional, without even trying to second-guess.

  24. Steve Asvitt Avatar
    Steve Asvitt
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    Why even worry about Jay? Difference between 2nd and 3rd is only $1000. Not sure how much time either James or Emma has to do all the above. https://media0.giphy.com/media/l0MYOUI5XfRk4LLWM/giphy-downsized-medium.gif

    1. Clark Barrett Avatar
      Clark Barrett
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      James wasn’t worrying about the $1000 differential between 2nd and 3rd, he was hoping (against all odds) that Emma would get a Shakespeare question wrong. See my post above. Imagine she gets it wrong, James get’s it right (but only bet $1) and Jay also gets it right and covers the max bet. That’s why James had to worry about Jay. James was still playing to win on the unlikely chance that Emma got the question wrong.

  25. Brianna Egan Avatar
    Brianna Egan
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    If your drawing in the preface is any indication of going through depression or mental health struggles, know that you are not alone. If perhaps your one-post-to-end-them-all explores mental health and depression, in a very meta twist, I would welcome it.

    But even if not I would highly recommend the book Lost Connections by Johann Hari on this subject. I would also appreciate and urge Tim and anyone reading this to be aware that antidepressants and other neuro-psych drugs, while they can help in the short term, are powerful drugs that can induce nightmarish withdrawal symptoms during tapering. This may be information you are not interested in hearing but it is crucial: any psychiatric medication must be tapered by 10% dosage reductions or less per month to account for the profound and exponential changes to neuroreceptors induced by the drug. This is crucial, lifesaving information that is hardly known among doctors. Please at least tuck it away for future knowledge. Thank you.

  26. Holger Matthies Avatar
    Holger Matthies
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    Thanks for this, as always! Looking forward to the next article – why don’t you split it up, like the legendary Elon Musk articles? (if that’s possible)… You know, get going so the rest follows more easily.

  27. SonySantos Avatar
    SonySantos
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    Hello, I suggest you to make videos. Yeah, videos are possibly harder to make the way you would like them, but I’m seeing both content-makers and public migrating from text to videos. I think that’s so because videos are easier and faster to view (for public), and content-makers are following their public. Note: I love your blog posts, but I think they would render delightful awesome videos.

    1. Ádám Zovits Avatar
      Ádám Zovits
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      No way. Please stick to text, as it is easier to write, searchable, portable, takes up less bandwidth, can be read faster or slower depending on personal preference and skill, is auto-paused every time the reader takes their eyes off the screen, etc.

      1. Lisa Avatar
        Lisa
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        So wish this was like Medium’s ‘claps’; I would clap almost a hundred times. Videos are SO annoying.

  28. Peter Schulman Avatar
    Peter Schulman
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    That’s the nerdiest thing I ever read! I loved it. Whenever somebody makes a pointless bet or misses an opportunity when we’re watching Jeopardy I tell my wife what the bet should have been. And what confirms its nerdyness is that it is long and detailed. When a nerd wants to explain something, we describe it in great detail so that anyone listening (who mostly don’t care) can understand it in complete detail. I notice a point in the description when I reflect that I already said too much (half an hour ago) for listeners to keep paying attention. I loved the post. It was like talking with friends.

  29. Oriza Triznyák Avatar
    Oriza Triznyák
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    This was the 2019 post, see you in 2020!

    1. Anthony Churko Avatar
      Anthony Churko
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      Not necessarily. I didn’t see a 2018 post.

  30. Thurgood Stubbs Avatar
    Thurgood Stubbs
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    https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/villains/images/2/21/Vezzini.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120727211953

  31. szs voc Avatar
    szs voc
    Hide

    this is hoow people go nuts. its a tough math problem, but this paret is just bs
    there was no way she wouldn’t bet to cover my all-in bet

    Let’s think about this for a second. If you’re Emma, you know James is an amazing strategist who has likely analyzed every possible Final Jeopardy scenario through and through. So you can guess that he will go through the above reasoning and will therefore make a b

    shed nvr think this. it was a grt category, and 100pct she had to bet it all. (not sure y she did not)

    1. Clark Barrett Avatar
      Clark Barrett
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      While I agree with your conclusion, I don’t agree with how you got there. Emma didn’t know anything about James til she got to the taping. She learned a little, right before. (See my post above). But she was totally gonna cover that bet completely anyway. Again see my post above.

      1. szs voc Avatar
        szs voc
        Hide

        true. plus by nature when people are nervous they stick to status quo

  32. Dennis Ulijn Avatar
    Dennis Ulijn
    Hide

    Would be real nice if the article included the final standings, as anyone other than an American watching Jeopardy wouldn’t know that…

  33. Ken Lane Avatar
    Ken Lane
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    I’m sure Kahneman and Tversky’s PROSPECT THEORY: AN ANALYSIS OF DECISION UNDER RISK must factor into these findings as well, particularly in how people underweight outcomes that are merely probable in comparison with outcomes that are obtained with certainty.

  34. pitbullsanslipstick Avatar
    pitbullsanslipstick
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    I thought I read that Jeopardy tapes so far in advance that Emma knew nothing about James. So she may not have put nearly as much thought into this as suggested here. She was just playing the game in front of her. (Not the legend of James.)

    1. Joshua Sachs Avatar
      Joshua Sachs
      Hide

      From what I’ve understood, they tape on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Each day they tape multiple episodes. I believe the contestants for upcoming episodes are present for the taping of the current episode (they are seated as the audience or something)… Unless this was the first taping of her day, AND nobody present had commented on James’ talent prior (not to mention his winnings) – she would have been pretty aware.

      There is an article by Delaware online that outlines one contestant’s experience against James… The article is about how Trebek mispronounced a city or something, but if you scan it for the words “buzz saw” you’ll see – they even describe an orientation during which contestants learned how screwed they were, eh.

      The post is pretty on the money IMO. The only situation in which the $1,399 bet makes sense is as a hedge against the guy in 3rd place doubling up, and both James and Emma getting it wrong (less than 1% probability by the author’s math). James should have concluded that there was a far greater probability of Emma attempting to out maneuver (“mind fuck”) him, or even that she may not have been strong in the category. It would have been a pretty safe bet to assume that they were not BOTH going to get the answer wrong… given that, James should have swung for the fences – even if it would have just been for making better television.

      Citation: since I don’t know the policy on posting links, google: “Delaware online Alex Trebek buzz saw”

      1. Clark Barrett Avatar
        Clark Barrett
        Hide

        Emma knew nothing about James until she arrived at her taping, and she barely had time to believe it. See my post above.

  35. Emily Bunker  Avatar
    Emily Bunker
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    Oops, I should’ve said at end: to assure second place if he was the only one who got it wrong.

  36. Emily Bunker Avatar
    Emily Bunker
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    James assumed Emma would bet traditionally — a good guess because that’s how almost every contestant bets. He’s been watching the show a long time, so he knows how rare nontraditional bets are. In fact, remember how surprised Alex was at James’ nontraditional bet? So, like you say in your spectacularly fun and informative post, James was betting to win if he and Emma both got it wrong (whereas she would’ve won if he’d bet it all), and to assure second place if all three of them got it right.

  37. Westerner Avatar
    Westerner
    Hide

    The article is based on the probability of contestants getting the answer right approaching 100%.

    If there’s 100% probability of Emma/James being correct on the last Q, then all would bet their full value
    Emma only needs to reach 46,801, but has upside to win more prize money, so may as well bet >20201

    If there’s 0% probability of Emma/James being correct on the last Q, then all would bet zero
    There’s no reason for Emma to bet anything, as she knows others can only go backwards and they don’t want to lose anything either, especially if they keep money.

    For probabilities >0% and << 100%:
    You can’t say James can go 2xMindfuck and bet 3,201 without allowing that Emma could then go 3*Mindfuck and bet > $1 (to beat James when he bets 3,201).
    So now we have
    a) Emma bets E > 1, E < 3,200 (to stays ahead if James in fact bets nothing)
    b) James bets 3,201+ J.
    E and J both drift up when you consider 4xMindfuck, 5xMindfuck infinite regress.
    E = 3199 is dominant anyhow for Emma: her chances of a win are 99% for any E < J and 99.01% for any E > J as long as E = $6400 to win, and, given this, he may as well try to maximise his potential winnings, since $11,000 cannot win here.).
    This 3199/23400 solution seems stable, but there’s a nested mindfuck there: E may raise itself to 4,599 (36600-4599=2*11000+1) to maximise earnings if J stays fixed, but would not do so if there’s a chance J drops to zero again.
    There’s no way to say
    a) With what probability any of these (n,n+1) mindfuck pairs occurs
    b) How Emma balances larger wins against a worry that James suddenly decides to bet 0

    Probabilities approaching 100% follow the analysis in the article mostly as the $11,000 actually impacts James probability of winning, which is not at the floor. Though the bets are sensitive to Emma and Jack’s assumptions about the other’s probabilty of getting the question right, and strategy.

  38. Karen Sergeant Avatar

    Never play Final Jeopardy against a Sicilian when death is on the line.

    1. Lisa Avatar
      Lisa
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      Want to upvote this a dozen times!

  39. truth Avatar
    truth
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    Why is there no mention about the category which was a near-guarantee for Emma?

    1. Clark Barrett Avatar
      Clark Barrett
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      Exactly, see my post above. James stated in interviews afterwards that he knew she was a lock for a damn easy Shakespeare question. It’s almost like the fix was in on that day. James kinda lost from his first pick of the day – a Daily Double without the luxury to capitalize on it with a big bet. There were a couple categories that seemed tailored for Emma too. Then the softball Shakespeare question in Final Jeopardy.
      I’m not actually a conspiracy theorist. I think James just couldn’t capitalize that round. The fact that they were both error free is telling and inspiring.

  40. Tom Adams Avatar
    Tom Adams
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    So what’s the base rate for Emma going non-traditional? It is probably very high. And the category seem relatively good for her.

    Does she have an planning advantage? Seems that she would know more about him than he knew about her. He was told that she was going to be his opponent.

    I bet the base rate is very close to 100%

  41. Anmuloced Avatar
    Anmuloced
    Hide

    If Emma were to consider the double mindfuck strategy, wouldn’t $1800 be a more prudent bet than $0? It would still put her a single dollar ahead of James and two dollars ahead of Jay even if she were the only one to get it wrong. Betting $0 suggests a lack of confidence regarding that last category, whereas betting $1800 demonstrates her mindfuckery to the nation at large with one of the most memorable Jeopardy episodes ever. Had she done this, people would have been talking about this for years, decades even. People would have perceived her as not only out-playing James, but as outwitting him as well.

    1. Anmuloced Avatar
      Anmuloced
      Hide

      Hell, in that position of betting $1800, I would have been tempted to intentionally get the question wrong. Right or wrong, if I anticipated James correctly, I win. If I didn’t anticipate James correctly, I’m likely hosed anyway, so I’d rather win spectacularly by a brilliant mindfuckian single dollar than a few thousand.

  42. Japaniard Avatar
    Japaniard
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    Leveled thinking also applies to poker and many (if not most) other strategy games
    http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/fundamentals/23167_Leveled_Thinking.html

    As you eventually concluded, it ends up being circular, with the Level 3 strategy being equivalent to the Level 0 strategy. because of this, you only need to know if you are on the same level as your opponent or 1 level above/below

  43. jbrontey Avatar
    jbrontey
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    My favourite Jeopardy strategy ever was Arthur Chu when he played for the tie, ensuring that the 2nd place finisher would bet everything to stay in the game. Sadly not possible anymore with the tiebreaker.

  44. Clefable Avatar
    Clefable
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    I don’t know these people but now I’m rooting for Emma

  45. Andrew Streit Avatar
    Andrew Streit
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    I thought I’d time travelled, then I thought maybe I blacked out for a year, I’ve finally come to the conclusion that you are going to post that its all a simulation and I’ll b ok with it and go through the door I haven’t wanted to admit has been there the whole time.

  46. QuebraBilhas Avatar
    QuebraBilhas
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    Woohoo! You’re back! I’m so happy, I’ve known this site for a while back and I’ve always treasured it as the source of thought and information it is, but only recently did I have the time to read allll the posts. So, craving for more, I was afraid you had had enough of WBW when I noticed the last post was so long ago, and I mourned the death of a website I loved so much and wondered what amazing things would you be thinking these past two years therefore I’m so glad to read that I’ll get to read them in a few [insert midst unit here]! Thank you for all your work and I wish you all the best Tim. Cheers

  47. Nash Avatar
    Nash
    Hide

    Or, Emma was doing a fifth or seventh or ninth….mindfuck.

  48. Draconian9054 Avatar
    Draconian9054
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    You can’t expect Emma to bet $0. She bet correctly to protect her lead.

    I think James should’ve bet everything, just in the unlikely case that he got it right and she got it wrong, he would maximize his earnings.

  49. laura Avatar
    laura
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    I’m just glad you’re back. God I love your posts!

  50. Brittney Lemoine Avatar
    Brittney Lemoine
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    Loved seeing Wait But Why in my email today! As always, your charts are just the best.

  51. Matthew Pirkowski Avatar
    Matthew Pirkowski
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    Relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_beauty_contest

  52. Doug Robinson Avatar
    Doug Robinson
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    James needs to be hired by ESPN as a sports commentator of some kind. He’s already got a built-in audience that likes him and he could port that over to another show.

  53. ByCracky Avatar
    ByCracky
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    My name is Jay.

  54. Bardia Avatar
    Bardia
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    So, you’ve been watching Jeopardy this whole time?

  55. Paxton Duff Avatar
    Paxton Duff
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    While the argument itself is logical, we should not discount the fact that
    1) James has won 32 in a row, so millions of eyes are watching Emma bet and
    2) With #1 in mind, Emma would rather risk the less-than-10% chance of missing rather than bet $0, lose to James by ‘outsmarting herself,’ and face a level of embarrassment that is exponentially higher than if she simply misses Final jeopardy.
    Though the percentages make sense in theory, James (a professional gambler) surely—and probably wisely—realized that he was more likely to be passed by Jay than to face a ‘double mind-game bet’ from Emma.

  56. Buster Benson Avatar

    So you’re saying Emma ultimately made the better bet, because regardless of whether it’s no-mindfuck or triple-mindfuck strategy it not only guarded against double-mindfuck but also won the game. This is aligned with the hypothesis that she’s also simply a better Jeopardy player than James, despite his impressiveness as well.

  57. MrTorf Avatar
    MrTorf
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    haha. this is like thinking through rock paper scissors 😀 All depends on how many levels deep your opponent thinks xD So it’s also about estimating your opponent’s strength/ mindfuckery

  58. middleWave Avatar
    Hide

    all this time and we get a jeopardy article? haha. looking forward to the next big post! big ups!

  59. Ed Giambalvo Avatar
    Ed Giambalvo
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    And this is why I’ve missed your posts these past two years…

  60. Steve Avatar
    Hide

    Sure, Emma is more likely to go with the traditional strategy—but how much
    more likely? Remember, on top of the general merits of the Emma
    Mindfuck strategy, she may also hate the clue category, which could
    further sway her in that direction.

    Overwhelmingly more likely. Emma was an English major (which she knew), and is a librarian (which James also knew from the show’s intro) and big-time Jeopardy! geek (which James also knew from the interview segment). The category was SHAKESPEARE’S TIME. Given her background, they both had to know she was extremely likely to be right.

    If the chance of James making a bigger-than-expected wager and being right is greater than the chance of Emma missing that Final, then she’s absolutely right to make the big bet. (And this doesn’t even consider 1) the possibility of a lifetime of regret of getting Final right and losing, or 2) a $20,000-or-so difference in paycheck, both of which would also sway her in the big-bet direction.)

    I’ve thought about this a ton. Heck, I’ve built an entire web app for J! contestants-in-training. (Check out the “Finals” tab of the sample stats page for wagering thoughts based on my real-life training stats.)

    They both made the right wager.

    1. Robin Avatar
      Robin
      Hide

      Shouldn’t they randomize their bets? If James made the “right” bet, then she can guarantee the win by not betting that much as there is a non-zero chance of getting it wrong. So then she made the “wrong” bet. But if she makes the “right” bet, then James is making the “wrong” bet by betting $1399. You can go around in circles but the actual “right” bet on both their parts is not a fixed amount. It is randomly chosen with assigned probabilities from calculations based on certain assumptions, namely the chance of getting the question correct for each player. This is of course assuming that the actual amount of the win doesn’t matter. (a win is a win). If it does, then there’s even more math to be done. What is the value of winning and getting to play the next game? For James, what is the value of setting the record for regular play winnings?

      1. Kristiyan Avatar
        Kristiyan
        Hide

        Why should they randomize? Yes, randomization is needed if you want GTO and it does stand for game theory optimal but it is optimal against other competent players who would exploit you if you deviate. If you think your opponent is predictable and exploitable, then it is much better to be unbalanced yourself and try to exploit him, assuming your assumptions are correct.

  61. Robert McAuley Avatar
    Robert McAuley
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    I’ve long been fascinated with Jeopardy wagering strategies (or the lack thereof) and this extremely cogent analysis of Single, Double, and even Triple Mindfuck strategies is truly worthy of Count Vizzini. However, nowhere does it take into account the DFS, or Dumbfuck Strategy, which dictates that no one wants to go home after the show knowing that they were in control of the game only to realize they could have won had they simply wagered enough, but instead chose like Count Vizzini, exposing themselves as… well, you know what.

    1. Andrew Gallagher Avatar
      Andrew Gallagher
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      Inconceivable!

  62. Charlie Mack Avatar
    Charlie Mack
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    You are assuming that she has a great deal of insight into James’ abilities. the day of the show.She only learned his record the day of his show. She having watched years of Jeopardy, seeing 2nd place contestants bet all in the great majority of times, she would rationally assume that the chance of a big bet was great.

  63. psuexv Avatar
    psuexv
    Hide

    But about the “I knew none of those people were ever in my kitchen” strategy?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=botdmsQilnU

  64. Owen Iverson Avatar
    Owen Iverson
    Hide

    I think the missing factor is that both of them were *highly* likely to get the answer right. So if we assume that, then we can guess at an entirely *different* line of their thinking. Sorry, I think this post was a throwaway – something to just knock out while you’re wrapping up the big thing.

  65. George Hegedus Avatar
    George Hegedus
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    Regardless if the math is accurate or not; any article that can tie probability/statistics together with the words mindfuck/double mindfuck or triple mindfuck is OK in my book.

  66. john Avatar
    john
    Hide

    Lost of good replies here… The math is spot on (given the assumptions), but the conclusion is 100% wrong. Like 100%!

    If you really want to get into the weeds on why it’s wrong you’d need to read about a concept in poker called GTO (game theory optimal), but the simplest way to prove this author is crazy is because he isn’t as smart or strategically gifted as James Holzahuer is… likely, no one posting here is.

    If James was capable of performing the same analysis to determine the GTO bet of $1,399 (and clearly he was), and we can assume he is strategic enough to consider the second order strategies of Emma (which I think is safer assumption than “he isn’t”), then he likely made a conclusion about her strategic orientation that it was EXTREMELY unlikely she would take a second order strategy and would in fact play it straight… and thus he must too because that was the optimal approach. Obviously other factors matter (like category, delta in money, etc.) but again I think it’s safer to assume that was in Jame’s calculus than it wasn’t.

    Understanding the probabilities is key, but understanding your opponents risk tolerance and response to those probabilities is more important.

    Fun read. Thank you.

    1. Robin Avatar
      Robin
      Hide

      That’s not how GTO strategies work. If you are always betting the same amount, that is not GTO. You need to randomize your bets. So maybe 92% of the time you bet $1399 and 8% of the time you bet all of it. Or maybe there are other possible bet amounts that need to be included. There is no way James calculated the GTO weighting on the spot. If he always chooses $1399, Emma will always bet $1800 and always win.

  67. RevFelix Avatar
    RevFelix
    Hide

    Did anyone else get a very Princess Bride-y vibe from this article?

    https://youtu.be/9s0UURBihH8?t=130

    1. RevFelix Avatar
      RevFelix
      Hide

      *reads the comments*
      Yes. Yes they did.
      *curses the decision to post as a guest thus losing the ability to edit or delete the post*

    2. Anna Kempf Avatar
      Anna Kempf
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      Yes! “I clearly cannot choose the wine in front of you…”????

  68. Jeff Avatar
    Jeff
    Hide

    Your assumption about both answering incorrectly being a 1% chance is inaccurate, because it’s not actually two separate individual 90% chances. There is a reasonably strong correlation between the two of them both answering correctly (most questions), or both answering incorrectly (difficult questions).

  69. FelixG Avatar
    FelixG
    Hide

    Thanks to the universe, probability, entropy and yourself, you’re still alive! Missed you too!

  70. Anthony Churko Avatar
    Anthony Churko
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    So in summary…

    2nd Place should do the opposite of whatever 1st Place does (bet small if they bet big, and bet big if they bet small). 1st Place should do the same of whatever 2nd Place does (bet small if they bet small, and bet big if they bet big).

    Emma was in 1st place and anticipated (correctly) that both she and James would correctly answer Final Jeopardy, and accordingly bet big to guarantee victory if she answered correctly. James, knowing that Emma knew this, bet small so as to win in the unlikely event that Emma answered incorrectly. Emma then answered correctly, so everyone acted logically.

    Tim’s point is that Emma could’ve anticipated that James would bet small, and then bet small herself and guaranteed victory. But then James could’ve anticipated that and bet big and won. But then Emma could’ve anticipated that and reverted to her original strategy. But then James could’ve anticipated Emma would revert to her original strategy and revert to his original strategy. But then Emma could’ve anticipated that and switched glasses when James’ back was turned.

  71. Sarah Albert Avatar
    Sarah Albert
    Hide

    James as Vizzini, “You only think I guessed wrong! That’s what’s so funny! I switched glasses when your back was turned! [laughs openly] You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is “Never get involved in a land war in Asia.” But only slightly less well known is this: “Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line!” [laughs maniacally for a few seconds, then stops abruptly and falls over dead.]”

  72. Ross Whittaker Avatar
    Ross Whittaker
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    Good to have you back Tim, fault in your logic unless I’m missing something.

    If Emma has a 90% chance of getting the question right, she would be silly to not back herself to get it right and guarantee success as the mindfuck strategy would expose her to a higher probability of losing.

    1. Enigma343 Avatar
      Enigma343
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      That’s exactly what I was thinking.

      Emma would only do this if she was unsure of the question and thought James would get it right. But if James knew that, then he would do the counterstrategy of betting bigger and ending up above Emma’s pre-round total. It may still make sense for Emma to do the if-I-get-this-right-I-lock-them-out bet.

  73. Danny Swift Avatar
    Danny Swift
    Hide

    I think what you’re not accounting for is that a Punnett square inherently assumes the variables are uncorrelated. In reality, if one of these two got the question wrong, it was probably a really hard question and the other one is much more likely to get it wrong.The blue section might look a bit more like a backwards L

    1. Ross Whittaker Avatar
      Ross Whittaker
      Hide

      I hadn’t forgotten that. There’s only a 10% chance of her getting the question wrong though. Extremely risky doing the mindfuck strategy as there’s 90% chance of him getting right in which case he would win if she uses the strategy so from Emma’s point of view she made the correct decision. Which means James made the correct strategy also. Happy to be wrong if I’m missing something, please point out.

  74. Jim Avatar
    Jim
    Hide

    (MAN IN BLACK) Then make your choice. (VIZZINI starts to laugh) (MAN IN BLACK) What’s so funny? (VIZZINI) I’ll tell you in a minute. First, let’s drink — me from my glass, and you from yours. (MAN IN BLACK) You guessed wrong. (VIZZINI roaring with laughter) You only think I guessed wrong…that’s what’s so funny! I switched glasses when your back was turned. Ha-ha, you fool. You fell victim to one of the classic blunders. The most famous is “Never get involved in a land war in Asia.” But only slightly less well known is this: “Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line!Ahahahaha, ahahahaha, ahahaha–
    https://youtu.be/rMz7JBRbmNo

    1. Anthony Churko Avatar
      Anthony Churko
      Hide

      I was thinking of this clip the whole time.

    2. Karyn Avatar
      Karyn
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      Yes, yes, yes! This is exactly what I thought of, too 🙂

  75. Geoff Avatar
    Geoff
    Hide

    I like the topic. You have to include another variable into the EV of the situation. The most important thing for a good player that will probably win the next game is to win the game they are on but you still have to look at the money for the current game. If the new champ bets zero and she wins then she makes 26k. If she bets 20k and wins then she makes 46k. Being able to bet 20k with a 90% chance of winning it is a good situation that would need to be factored in to some degree.

  76. George Hegedus Avatar
    George Hegedus
    Hide

    Hopefully you are working on The Presidents Part III or It’s Going to Be OK Part 3. Would love to see your description of the current political dumpster fire.

  77. ddt Avatar
    ddt
    Hide

    You just essentially described “leveling” in poker. Nice post.

  78. Nova Avatar
    Nova
    Hide

    If I were James, I wouldn’t have worried about coming in third. “In the game of Jeopardy (Thrones), you win or you die.” James coming in second or third place is a loss is a loss is a loss. I was crushed when it happened. I’m surprised that Emma lost after her third game. I was expecting her to take it so much farther. I know it was similar with Ken Jennings, the person who beat him only had a four or five game streak before being eliminated.
    Excellent article!

    1. Matt Carmody Avatar
      Matt Carmody
      Hide

      I don’t think he’s worried about coming in third, he’s worried about third place jumping into first and beating him

    2. Clark Barrett Avatar
      Clark Barrett
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      The person who beat Ken Jennings lost her next game. Historically, MOST people who dethrone a Jeopardy champ (who’s a had a long run of something like 10 games or more) lose in their next game. Emma won a few, proving she was a really good player.
      (I know way too much about this, and yet try as I might still haven’t made it on the show).

  79. nmml12345 Avatar
    nmml12345
    Hide

    I love this post so much… but there is a flaw in the logic. In order for Emma to go mindfuck with any confidence, she has to know who James is and know that he’s brilliant and know that he thinks/plays traditionally. The episode where she beats him taped BEFORE James’ first winning episode aired. So she would have walked into the studio with no idea who James was, and no knowledge of his previous wins. That makes going mindfuck more risky IMO.

    1. ahoybear Avatar
      ahoybear
      Hide

      Not necessarily true. She would have heard Alex’s intro about how James is really close to beating the all time money record. Also, we don’t know how much they tell the contestants beforehand…They all presumably have to sign NDAs anyway.

      1. Clark Barrett Avatar
        Clark Barrett
        Hide

        She only learned about it the morning of the taping and didn’t believe what she was told. See my post above. They introduced her to James as they were filling out paperwork.

    2. Jeff Avatar
      Jeff
      Hide

      In addition to what ahoybear says, many contestants also watch some games from the studio audience before their own taping. So there is a possibility that Emma saw James play prior to competing against him.

      1. Clark Barrett Avatar
        Clark Barrett
        Hide

        She only learned about it the morning of the taping and didn’t believe what she was told. See my post above.

  80. Duane Lawton Avatar
    Duane Lawton
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    All very exacting analysis, impressive. But I think that James’ problem was earlier–he didn’t get the Daily Doubles. That was the difference.

    1. Harvey-6-3.5 Avatar
      Harvey-6-3.5
      Hide

      He actually did get the first daily double, but it was on the first clue so he hadn’t built a bank yet. Then he didn’t get either daily double in the second round. That’s what allowed her to get more money than him If he had gotten either daily double, he would likely have won.

  81. Giang Ngo Avatar
    Giang Ngo
    Hide

    I might have to go through wikipedia for this game’s rule and watch some episodes as prep work before reading this article. Sure it’s totally worth it!

  82. Kimberley Jade Avatar
    Kimberley Jade
    Hide

    I’ve never seen an episode of Jeopardy but I absolutely love the way you write. You definitely have a talent – thank you for sharing it. Looking forward to whatever comes out next. 🙂

  83. Carl Witthoft Avatar
    Carl Witthoft
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    Game theory and statistics and reading your opponent’s tell all come into this. As someone already pointed out, it’s not only win vs. lose, but how much you win or lose. Further, you should hedge your choice based on your own confidence in knowledge of the FJ category. You know the category before placing the bet, so if you know nothing at all about, say “Pre-Columbian Christian Art in South America,” 🙂 , better to plan on being wrong.

    1. Zack Light Avatar
      Zack Light
      Hide

      How could there be Pre-Columbian Christian Art in South America?

      Oh, yeah
      I get it now

  84. san.san Avatar
    san.san
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    We can wait but why we need to wait for so long for your post.

  85. Doug Robinson Avatar
    Doug Robinson
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    Emma lost tonight (06-06-2019). So after “beating” James, she only lasted a few days… Although her game play was good, it was erratic when compared to James’, and lacked his aggressive, structured attack on the game. I miss James! But he will be back in November, in Jeopardy’s “Tournament of Champions!”

    1. lisbeth Avatar
      lisbeth
      Hide

      Yes, she ruined a great, fun time at 7:30 every evening. I looked forward to watching him (His funny expressions grew on me). He has a much wider knowledge of just about everything, than she did.

  86. Finn Avatar
    Finn
    Hide

    Wouldn’t be surprised if the optimal strategy is some mix, where you play traditional strategy x% of the time and double mindfuck y% of the time etc etc. That’s assuming your opponent also plays their respective strategies the correct percentage of the time. The instant someone plays a particular strategy within their optimal set of strategies more or less than they should, they leave you space to exploit by shifting the balance of your strategy choice. Echoes of poker and optimal bluff/semibluff percentages…

    At any rate, a highly mathematical-in-style poker player would be a good person to analyse and answer this.

  87. Anthony Avatar
    Anthony
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    Good post. Have they changed the rules, or do both/all players still move on when there is a tie?

    If the rules haven’t changed, playing for the tie is another strategy, especially when you’re up against weak opponents (scenario A). Although the fact that they’re a weak opponent has to be weighed against how much practice they’ve gotten using the clicker.

    1. Steve Avatar
      Hide

      They changed the rule around 2014. Ties in regular play are now broken by a tiebreaker clue, just like in tournament play.

    2. allein ???? Avatar
      allein ????
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      They changed the rules a few years ago (I read somewhere that it had to do with something Arthur Chu did when he played but I don’t know if that’s true). Tied players used to be co-champions in the next game but now they have a tie-breaker question (they used to only do that in tournaments).

  88. Elder Christopher Avatar

    But you would know what I was thinking, so I clearly couldn’t choose the poison in front of me…

    1. Jon Saxon Avatar
      Hide

      But after besting the giant and swordsman, one might conclude there is more up his sleeve, like Iocane resistance…

  89. Jovan Simovic Avatar
    Jovan Simovic
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    Assuming 90/10 correct answer ratio for both of them that you used, JDMF strategy would be correct if Emma plays EDMF in at least around 1.15% of these situations (pretty low, but on the other hand, maybe she never thought about doing it, then even 1% would be a huge mistake in the asumption). So it all comes down to asumptions and geting to know your oponent better – othewise the only correct strategy is to assume and mix strategies in right amount according to assumed percentages. Since there is no large enough sample of Emma decisions for James to have strong assumption about what is Emma going to do, it is still hard to call his final decision wrong. On the other hand, Emma had large sample of James decisions, so it was easier for her to make a right assumption…. if she did that at all.
    Great post as always!

  90. Jacques Avatar
    Jacques
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    Welcome back Tim,
    At the risk of sounding stupid may I ask you folks what the thinking behind not being overtaken for second place is? Why would James care? It seemed out of character to place a bet with the fear of dropping to third in the back of his mind.
    Am I missing something? Isn’t first place everything, and finishing second or third irrelevant? At least to a player like James.

    1. Bauzenpaul Avatar
      Bauzenpaul
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      He HAS to protect himself against third place because he assumes Emma bets big. That way, Emma is basically out in case she is wrong and Jay would win if James „over-bets“ and falls behind him. So the traditional thinking forces him to always be in front of Jay (even if James himself is wrong) – assuming Emma gets it wrong. So his bet is not caring about rather being second than third – he only cares about NOT being second and losing to JAY in case Emma fails.

    2. Tyler Fish Avatar
      Tyler Fish
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      It isn’t the fear of dropping to third. Remember that there is a reasonable chance that he and Emma both get it wrong. If this happens, James will win, but ONLY if he still has more than Jay. James isn’t preventing himself from falling to 3rd rather than 2nd – he’s instead making sure that if Jay is the only one to get it right, Jay does not overtake everyone and win the whole episode

      1. Jacques Avatar
        Jacques
        Hide

        Got it. Thanks.
        Still seems a bit conservative to me especially considering James’ aggressive approach but that now at least makes sense.

  91. Kristiyan Vachev Avatar
    Kristiyan Vachev
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    Your posts are so rare, that the email notifications are actually worth it!

  92. Ryan Daut Avatar
    Ryan Daut
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    There’s a few major things you’re missing with this analysis — the first is that the winner gets to keep the amount they won. If Emma is indeed 90% to get final jeopardy correct, then she is incentivized to bet a lot and maximize her win because then 90% of the time she wins $46801 instead of a smaller amount.

    And then of course, you can keep going down the levels — if he expects her to sometimes bet $0, he can start betting $3201 and hope that the third place player didn’t go all in and bet just enough to beat them both if they all get it wrong, after which she may decide to increase her bet a little more from $0 to block that amount, etc.

    And further, since they both are strong players, if Emma does get the question wrong then it’s likely it was a very hard question and James is more likely than usual to get it wrong, meaning their performance is correlated and not independent, so James getting the answer correct while she gets it wrong is unlikely.

    It’s hard to calculate all of this combined with future game EV (how much does Emma gain from future jeopardy games so that slightly increasing her survival rate tonight overrides winning an extra $20k 90% of the time), alongside the Nash Equilibrium that is created from her deciding to bet less than 2*23400+1 sometimes to prevent James from betting $1399 frequently.

    This is a really tough problem to come up with frequencies for each player’s equilibrium actions due to the presence of the 3rd player and many bet sizes. I think for a strong player like Emma just going $20201 there is a safe strategy that has a very good chance of maximizing her overall jeopardy EV (even if she loses 1-3% more often tonight).

    1. Tyler Fish Avatar
      Tyler Fish
      Hide

      I completely agree, Tim would only be (maybe) right in his analysis if jeopardy weren’t a single-elimination game. Since it is, Emma is going to rely on her ability to answer FJ correctly above everything else, and maximize her winnings while guaranteeing she wins if she gets FJ right.

      Plus, if she misses FJ and loses, she can at least know that she lost because she missed it. Whereas if she lost because she bet $0 but James bet, say, $3k? Forget about it, she can never forgive herself for making that bet, and the world will forever see it as a mistake.

  93. Keir Avatar
    Keir
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    Wait But Where on earth have you been, Tim?

  94. Keimpe Wiersma Avatar
    Keimpe Wiersma
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    I was in this exact same situation, some 25 years ago in the Dutch version of Jeopardy! I was second, didn’t know s*** about strategy (for us, it was a brand new TV show) and instinctively bet low, so I could only win if no 1 would not know the answer (or rather the question), which he did, so I lost anyway.

    Here it is in awful quality (because we had VHS back then) on youtube:
    https://youtu.be/cL-6EBP1jrI
    (I’m the uptight guy with the glasses)

    1. Ton Bil Avatar
      Ton Bil
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      Even though being a Dutchman, I had never seen this, but hey, you didn’t play too bad! Quite a tough guy to beat, that Wim there.

      1. Keimpe Wiersma Avatar
        Keimpe Wiersma
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        Dank je, Ton! En ja, die Wim was steengoed. Ik zag ‘m later nog een keer terug in Twee voor Twaalf. Je ziet wel vaker “kwishoppers” bij verschillende spelletjes terug. Zelf heb ik er ook een stuk of zes gedaan. Was superleuk. Bij dit Jeopardy was het trouwens heel moeilijk spelen: je had onder je desk een spelletjes joystick waar je in de ‘schietknop’ moest knijpen als je het wist. Maar dat werd pas NA het helemaal lezen van de vraag geregistreerd, terwijl je vaak na een paar woorden al weet waar het naartoe gaat. Dus we stonden beiden steeds als een malloot te drukken en dan was het toeval wie er als eerste doorheen kwam. Dat was irritant. Verder was het leuk en ik hield er een weekendje in een bungalow in Winterberg aan over. Groetjes!

  95. gatorallin Avatar
    gatorallin
    Hide

    Ahh, so satisfying to see a new post from WBW. So timely and so perfect in size. More please. I think I have been building up resentment on whatever giant post you are working on…so much so, I think I won’t like it just that it has been keeping you hostage this effectively. Maybe a Jeff Bezos goes to the moon post, or will the new Elon roadster hit 300mph, or the 5 craziest and most desperate excuses why we can’t be alone in the Universe Fermi excuses or trade war fails. Even a tease of what you have been working on….

  96. Florian Fuchs Avatar
    Florian Fuchs
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    Tim urban = GRRM

    1. Alex Chebykin Avatar
      Alex Chebykin
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      Which means that the long post he’s been writing these past 2 years is… “Winds of Winter”!

  97. Eric Rapp Avatar
    Eric Rapp
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    Well, we’ll certainly be seeing him again. In the Tournament of Champions, at the very least. But probably special events as well.

  98. flite505 Avatar
    flite505
    Hide

    I knew he had to lose, eventually; but he was so good I thought well, he might make a career of this. His loss that day gave me a similar feeling to one of my sports teams losing a playoff finals game, only actually worse. The sports team would play again. We could not see James go on a streak again, except for a limited run in the Jeopardy Champions series. I can’t wait to see this next one now. I wanted James to beat Ken Jennings’ total amount, which he would have with one more normal day win of his. He would mosts likely have won except he was not lucky getting the Daily Double’s. I also thought James had more of an advantage when the answers were more esoteric, and not so common. I will sure miss seeing James on Jeopardy .

    1. Gekabee Avatar
      Gekabee
      Hide

      Someone said to me that maybe if the questions were tougher someone would beat James. I told them the tougher the questions were the less likely it would be someone would beat him because he knew so much. I was sure someone would eventually beat him when the overall questions were easier so more people knew the answers and then someone as fast as he was on the buzzer was a bit luckier in finding the Daily Doubles.

      1. flite505 Avatar
        flite505
        Hide

        Well said. James was very unlucky not finding one Daily Double

  99. TheFinisher Avatar
    TheFinisher
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    Tim, for James and Emma I think this amounted to a fairly straightforward game theory problem. I’m sure James (and perhaps Emma as well) understood that second-, third-, and even fourth-levels of the problem could be considered, but man, that’s overthinking it in a game like Jeopardy.

  100. PaintedSlate Avatar
    PaintedSlate
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    Cool ideas here. Might need to adjust for “are the players likely to even play this mini-game in this meta?” Kinda like bluffing players who are likely to call in general. Also, I don’t think it substantially affects your conclusions, but the numbers are probably wrong due to assuming a zero correlation between questions each gets wrong. So where either gets it wrong, I’d expect that both getting it wrong is more likely than represented in the blue quadrant.

  101. otuleja Avatar
    otuleja
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    Great post, as always!

    “For James’ traditional strategy to be the best tactic, the chances of Emma going mindfuck would have to be utterly minuscule.”

    At first, it felt as if your use of “utterly miniscule” was off, but after doing the numbers out, you’re right: James has a higher win percentage with the “double mindfuck” strategy as long as Emma adopts the “mindfuck” strategy more than 1.1% of the time (given your assumption of 90% accuracy on the Final Jeopardy question).

    James’ double mindfuck strategy also has limited downside and big upside. If James plays double mindfuck, his worst-case scenario is that he is in a world where Emma-esque people play a traditional strategy in this spot 100% of the time. In that world, his decision to play double mindfuck costs him 1% chance of winning.

    However, as James’ perceived chances that Emma will play a traditional strategy decrease, his payoff for playing double mindfuck skyrockets compared to the measly 1% advantage I just noted. If Emma-esque people play a 90/10% split of traditional/mindfuck, James gains 8.1% (!!!) by going double mindfuck.

    Payoff for James playing traditional:
    (90% chance Emma plays traditional) * (10% James win) + (10% chance Emma plays mindfuck) * (0% James win) = 9% overall win

    Payoff for James playing double mindfuck:
    (90% chance Emma plays traditional) * (9% James win) + (10% chance Emma plays mindfuck) * (90% James win) = 17.1% overall win

    Of course, if Emma correctly deduces that James will make this calculation, her best counter to his double-mindfuck is to play traditional, etc. There is no Nash equilibrium for the final game board in your post.

    James truly was a pleasure to watch… I’m looking forward to Tournament of Champions!

    1. Tyler Fish Avatar
      Tyler Fish
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      If Emma correctly deduces that he will make this wager, is her optimal strategy really to play traditional? Because then she loses in the both-wrong scenario (which is way more likely than the 1% Tim assumes). It seems a triple-mindfuck is then better: bet just enough to cover his double mindfuck bet, allowing herself to still win in the both-wrong situation

      1. Emerl Avatar
        Emerl
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        It’s impossible for Emma to cover an all-in from James without risking defeat if they’re both wrong.

      2. otuleja Avatar
        otuleja
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        Well, Tim didn’t tell us what he was envisioning for James’ double mindfuck bet size. He only wrote: “James can hugely up his chances of winning by making a big bet instead of a small bet”. However, we can deduce that James’ double mindfuck bet size should be 100% of his available money. Look at the second column (James plays double mindfuck) of the final game board. There is no scenario in which James wins where he didn’t get the question right. Therefore, he can safely bet it all, knowing that there’s no downside to losing a large amount of cash because he’s not getting that cash if he misses the question. Therefore, “bet just enough to cover his double mindfuck bet” amounts to Emma’s original traditional strategy.

        You could counter by saying that James could/should consider possibilities for Emma’s strategies other than traditional and mindfuck — but I’m not sure that’s a fruitful line of inquiry, and at any rate that is way too complicated for me. 🙂

        Emma going mindfuck here takes massive DGAF-attitude because if both she and James get it right and he bets 100%, she’s going to get second guessed by normies/everyone in her hometown for the next two weeks. It would’ve been hilarious, though, if she had bet $0 and gotten the question wrong (but like, a believable, close wrong… a “I’m still trying to get this question right even though I bet $0” wrong, not a “I know I bet zero so I’m just goofing around” wrong) just to rub salt in James’ wound when he plays the traditional strategy. Ha!

    2. John Avatar
      John
      Hide

      There is a NE, Emma plays traditional ~98.9% of the time, and James plays traditional ~89.01% of the time. Emma can’t be that exploited if she plays traditional 100% of the time, and James’ best response to that is playing traditional 100% of the time himself. He leaves himself more open to exploitation by doing that though.

  102. Tyler Fish Avatar
    Tyler Fish
    Hide

    I already commented, but I have another nit to pick as it turns out. I don’t like the diagram that says the chance they both get FJ wrong is only 1%, but the odds either one of them gets it wrong is 9%. This is way off. They’re not independent events at all. If it’s hard enough to stump either, it probably stumps both most of the time. Further, if it does only stump one, it’s almost certain to be Emma, seeing as James was 31/32 on FJs and was generally very rarely wrong. The remaining odds are, assuming we accept about 80% that they’re both right (probably itself much too high): 5% they’re both wrong, 14% only Emma is wrong, 1% only James is wrong. Even then I’ve given James a 6% chance of being wrong, which seems too high.

  103. Vivek Avatar
    Vivek
    Hide

    Looks like you’ve been reading Game Theory. Suits an INTP!

    1. boszg Avatar
      boszg
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      Any books you’d suggest?

  104. Tyler Fish Avatar
    Tyler Fish
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    Sorry @Tim, but his final average across his 32 wins was not over $77k as stated in the article, but about 50 bucks shy. I believe it was $76,944.25 but I could be wrong. Either way he JUST barely missed both that figure and Ken’s $2.5MM figure

  105. Mike Totman Avatar
    Mike Totman
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    “Truly, you have a dizzying intellect“

    1. Josh Slowick Avatar
      Josh Slowick
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      I came into the comments section to post something similar, but was beaten to the punch, I salute you, sir.

    2. 30p Avatar
      30p
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      that guy is Dr. Sturgis from Young Sheldon? so he was *always* bald!!!

  106. Susan E. Schwartz Avatar
    Susan E. Schwartz
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    what probably should be made some mention of is that emma had no oppty to see any of james’s gameplay. he was just another player as far as she knew. so she had no way of knowing how he might bet. plus, she has only seconds to place her bet — hardly enough time to strategize, one would imagine.

    1. Tyler Fish Avatar
      Tyler Fish
      Hide

      Actually, she was a holdover from the previous taping day. Emma watched James play five full games, then went home Wednesday night with five full days to figure out how she was going to deal with him. Then she came back the following Tuesday and beat him first thing in the morning.

      Also, she, like everyone, had plenty of time to strategize for her final jeopardy bet. They’re given multiple minutes to decide how much to wager.

      1. otuleja Avatar
        otuleja
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        Ya, and he had been on the show for long enough that she surely would’ve seen him play on TV before the taping.

        1. Gene Avatar
          Gene
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          No, this game was taped in March and James’s first game aired in April.

          1. otuleja Avatar
            otuleja
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            Ahh yes, you are correct… I thought the delay was only a few weeks.

  107. Taylor Marks Avatar
    Hide

    Who do we have to wait longer for – Tim Urban, or George R. R. Martin?

    1. Ryan Avatar
      Ryan
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      avatar 2 is my answer lol

  108. Margling53 Avatar
    Margling53
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    Amazing. Nerdism carried further than I ever imagined it could be. Missed you, too, Tim. But while you were hibernating or whatever you were doing, our country was taken over by an asshole who verges on fascism along with his family and other criminals who carry out his fascistic orders. It’s hard to care about, or be even mildly amused by, a game show.

  109. Amanda Sessim Avatar
    Amanda Sessim
    Hide

    Think of it this way: you’re writing a book, not exactly a blog post anymore. Don’t worry about the weight of that head. It’s great to hear from you, Tim, I missed you.

  110. Antonia Rosina Gauer Avatar
    Antonia Rosina Gauer
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    Very interesting, Tim. I am suffering horribly from James withdrawal. Talk about brilliant strategist. There was something rather weird about his last show – the little card, the just not answering questions, and maybe also the last bet. I am happy to see the new champ has some personality, as the last two nights have been a snoozefest.

    1. steph_delagarza Avatar

      Do I smell a conspiracy?? Did Jeopardy execs need to ‘have a little talk’ with him about his ‘performance’??

      1. Tyler Fish Avatar
        Tyler Fish
        Hide

        That would be very illegal of them to do, and they run a very tight ship, and they were getting the best ratings in 15 years because of him

    2. lisbeth Avatar
      lisbeth
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      I agree with you… that it didn’t seem like the same guy playing that last game. He wasn’t even trying to answer some questions that even I, with my small brain, knew. I guess he just wanted to go home.

      1. Antonia Rosina Gauer Avatar
        Antonia Rosina Gauer
        Hide

        The moment he gave that card to Alex, I thought, “This is his swan song.” Then the complete lack of interest in answering some very basic questions that I am sure he knew the answer to, and that last bet. Also, the hyper-excitement and high five for Emma seemed not the sort of reaction to ending his run just short of “beating” KJ. It all looked planned to me.

  111. David Greschler Avatar
    David Greschler
    Hide

    Nice to see you back. Funny, I was thinking of you today as someone was telling me why they left Facebook. It made them feel bad about themselves, and I had a lightning thought about your post on that subject followed by the “I haven’t hear from him in a long time.” And then here you are, popping up out of nowhere! Sorry to hear things have been unpleasant. Hoping thing are on the up for you.

  112. Brady Dill Avatar
    Brady Dill
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    That’s interesting, and great, and I enjoyed reading it.

    But damn, I really thought you had died a sudden death, either literally or of spirit. Couldn’t you have kept up the Dinner Tables? I mean, just asking the questions for others to discuss, without adding anything by yourself? I enjoyed those quite a bit…

    I’m looking forward to the book-length post you’ve been working on. I don’t want to have to wait another couple decades to hear from you again, though. 🙁